Three candidates for Kerr County Precinct 2 Commissioner spent nearly two hours, before more than 75 attendees, trying to differentiate themselves from their opponents last week at a forum hosted by the Center Point Lions Club at the Center Point ISD cafeteria.
Sonya Hooten, a fifth-generation resident with 30-plus combined years experience working with the Center Point ISD and Kerr County Sheriff’s Office; Stan Kubenka, a retired 40-plus year local businessman; and Rich Paces, who moved to Kerr County in 2006 and retired as an oil and gas executive, identified their perceived issues, vowed to be available and listen to their constituents and discussed the recent controversy with the county’s acceptance of federal American Rescue Plan Act funds, among many other topics.
The fourth candidate, Jack Pratt, did not participate in the forum.
Opening statements
Kubenka
Kubenka said he would be readily available and visible to his constituents, if elected, and said he understands the “need for a voice” inside the Kerr County Courthouse.
“I think I’m here to be your voice. I’m a people person,” Kubenka said. “I don’t mind having people talk to me. I don’t even mind people coming at me in kind of an angry way.”
Kubenka said he was in the HVAC wholesale business for 45 years.
“You don’t want to see a woman unhappy when she doesn’t have her air conditioning working,” Kubenka said. “So, I get it.”
Paces
Paces said he is a Center Point resident and has been since 2006.
“I was remarkably blessed with a successful career in oil and gas, spanned over 36 years and took my wife and I all over the world,” Paces said. “I started as a petroleum engineer and eventually, I was an executive for several different oil companies before I retired in ’15.”
Paces said he has been looking for ways to “give back” and serve the Lord since retiring.
Paces said he is member of the Center Point Volunteer Fire Department, volunteers for Habitat for Humanity, is a member of Hosanna Lutheran Church, and serves as director, chairman and treasurer of the Wildlife Committee for his subdivision, Hidden Hills Ranch.
“So, now I would like to serve the community in the role of county commissioner,” Paces said, “and use some of those skills that I acquired over my lengthy career.”
Paces said he stands for smaller government, lower taxes, less regulation, less government-dependency, state’s rights, energy independence and election integrity.
“I’m pro-gun and pro-life,” Paces said. “And, I will oppose any government mandate that violates our civil rights. I’ll also oppose any kind of mandate for vaccines or masks.”
Paces said he has been campaigning for extended period of time and has never run for office before.
“I guarantee my heart is in the right place and I’ll work harder than anybody at it,” Paces said.
He said the issues that have been raised to him while campaigning are growth and water availability.
“They kind of go hand-in-hand,” Paces said. “Also, rising property taxes, road repair and maintenance and the lengthy response time to repair requests … illegal immigration and rising crime rates … lack of workers for small business and, of course, affordable housing for those essential workers.”
He said the issues are serious and “we need someone with serious qualifications to tackle these issues and this job.”
He said if he was looking for someone to fill the position, he would be looking for someone with executive management experience, business development experience, commercial and financial insights, experience with procurement, and someone with experience in managing large budgets. Paces said he has all of these qualifications “and then some.”
Paces said he has managed operating budgets in excess of $1 billion and had participation in projects of more than $2 billion.
Hooten
Hooten described herself as a small-town girl, who grew up in Center Point, raised her child in Center Point and is a “proud fifth-generation Kerr County resident.”
“I’m ready to be the voice for Precinct 2,” Hooten said. “If you’re expecting a smooth-talking politician, I’m not your girl. My primary objective in seeking this office is maintaining the quality of life that we enjoy here in the Texas Hill Country.
Hooten said she has a combined 30 years experience working at the Center Point Independent School District and the Kerr County Sheriff’s office, managing complex budgets and working in concert with city, county and state officials.
“Getting the job done right the first time, every time,” Hooten said. “In each of these roles, I have consistently been a good steward of your taxpayer dollars, trimming expenses and improving efficiency at every opportunity. After raising our family in Precinct 2 for 30 years, I am seasoned in our community and I am sensitive to the needs that we are facing here in Precinct 2.”
Hooten said she is a dedicated volunteer, giving her time to organizations that help young people prepare for a brighter future, including nine years as the club manager for the Center Point 4-H Club, PAT President and treasurer, numerous booster clubs and 12 years on the Center Point Stock Show Association.
Hooten said as a member of the Republican Women of Kerr County, she chairs the “Caring for America” committee.
“It doesn’t matter who I know or what I’ve done, this race is not about me,” Hooten said. “This race is about how important you are to this community and it’s about ensuring your voice is represented at the county level. Like it or not, changes are coming to our community and you deserve a commissioner who is committed to meeting those challenges head-on, with a strong determination to maintain the quality of life, prioritizing common sense growth and development and preserving our standards and small-town values. You deserve a commissioner who’s focused on public safety, supports our law enforcement and is keeping our neighborhood safe. Most importantly, you deserve a commissioner to be open, accountable and transparent to you, the taxpayer. Kerr County needs bold leadership, with integrity and vision, an actual conservative who will run this county on time and under budget with no excuses. I am that leader for Kerr County. Together we can ensure a brighter future for Kerr County for generations to come.”
Is Kerr County Road and Bridge going to repair Center Point streets after the sewer install and will you see that this is done in a timely manner?
Paces
“Gosh, I sure hope so,” Paces said.
Paces said he recently spoke with Kelly Hoffer, road and bridge administrator, and said that the sewer project was funded with federal monies and that he hopes they provided for cleanup street repair once the project is finished.
“Road and bridge has its own issues because they are tasked with maintaining our roads and right now they are on a 19-20 year cycle for repairing roads, for resurfacing roads,” Paces said. “We all know it’s chip seal out here and that’s good for about 10 years, at best.”
He said that with the county not repairing roads in a timely manner, the process is “costing a lot more money.”
“I would certainly want to work with road and bridge and do all we can. We are probably going to have to initially increase the budget, to get them on to that 9-10 year cycle for road repair,” Paces said. “Our roads will be a heck of a lot better looking and we won’t then incur the major reconstruction costs that we are looking at doing right now.”
Paces criticized the Center Point sewer project, saying it was not properly planned.
Hooten
“I’ve also spoken to Kelly. We’ve talked extensively,” Hooten said. “I know working the sheriff’s budget (former sheriff Rusty Hierholzer and current Sheriff Larry Leitha), I know it’s very hard when we are doing that in May to try to predict what is going to happen down the road. I know right now, they are very concerned, because the cost of materials has increased so much. They are struggling to get done what they need to get done. They still have to work within that budget that they planned for in May and June.”
Hooten said she absolutely wants the roads repaired, but realistically understands that the timeframe is determined by the budget process.
“We will do what we can to budget that in for next year and know that is coming and see where we need to go from there,” Hooten said.
Kubenka
“Specifically to your question, I do not have an answer for that, because I don’t know for sure,” Kubenka said. “But, I do know that we are very blessed to have the road and bridge department that we do have as a county. We have an engineer and a road administrator. Believe it or not, that is very rare in Texas. Most counties cannot afford that, so right off the bat, we have a good structure to present that question.”
Kubenka said that he would be meeting with County Engineer Charlie Hastings to find out if there was money planned in the initial sewer project to repair roads.
If elected, what would be your primary objective going forward?
Hooten
“If elected, my first objective is to come to you. You’re the ones with the knowledge of what needs to be done in Precinct 2,” Hooten said. “I want to understand exactly how you feel about what is going on the place that we live. My other priority is development and water issues. Those are very important to me. I want to work with Headwaters Ground Water Conservation District. I want to work with UGRA and I want to make sure that we have enough water supply for the developments that are coming into this area. We know they are coming.”
Kubenka
“Without a doubt, subdivisions are the number one, and right now the county is working on the subdivision rules. I would ask you to be vigilant and watch for their agenda, because of right now, I don’t know why, but because they are speaking to an attorney, they are doing all of this in executive session,” Kubena said. “This doesn’t mean it’s bad, it just means we can’t hear it at this point. I think when these subdivision rules come out, we will have 30 days as citizens to review it, please don’t quote me on that, I don’t know for sure, but we will have an opportunity to look at the new subdivision rules.”
He said that he has heard that Headwaters Groundwater Conservation District has strengthened their position on water availability to subdivisions of high density.
“That’s a good thing,” Kubenka said.
Kubenka said he served on the Upper Guadalupe River Authority Board for 11 years and said he has a lot of connections to people at the City of Kerrville, Headwaters GCD, the airport board and works with Center Point ISD board.
“I would look to your leaders to keep me informed on what’s going on, and also, you the citizens,” Kubenka said.
“Subdivision rules are a priority. Protecting this river is major,” Kubenka said. “There’s a lot of things going on with that river that shouldn’t be done. Also, the quarries out here.”
He said the county’s APO group is working to improve the quarry situation and added that illegal aliens are coming into the county and law enforcement is a big concern.
Paces
“I’ve already been talking to all the folks out here and in Precinct 2 as I am knocking on doors and campaigning, so I’ve got a pretty good idea of the issues and I think the number one issue is growth and water availability,” Paces said. “I love the people of the Hill Country and the quality of life we enjoy, too, and want to preserve that for future generations, but we are going to continue to have more growth. People are attracted to live here. I can’t say I blame them. It’s a fine line between a landowner’s right to sell his property and for someone to come in a buy it and then subdivide it and certainly that’s allowed right now under the rules and regulations for subdivisions.”
Paces said he also knows that county commissioners are working on subdivision rule changes and said he doesn’t know either what they are going to do except incorporate the HGCD changes.
“That’s basically what killed the Center Point Village project,” Paces said. “To the best of my knowledge, that project is dead and I think most people are pretty happy about that.”
He said there are a number of other developments that are going forward, namely Creekside, he said.
“I do think that Sutherland is going to do it right and they are certainly doing it within the county rules and regulations. I just think it is important that our commissioners stop granting variances,” Paces said. “That’s one of the problems that led to the Center Point Village. Too many variances were granted. We need to stick to the rules. If they really think a change is required, do what they are doing now, change them. Variances should really be the exception.”
He said he would work with UGRA, HGCD, Texas Water Development Board, the city of Kerrville and the county on water issues.
Will you respond to phone calls and e-mails on a daily basis?
Hooten
“If I am around, my phone will be on,” Hooten said. “I do plan to put out a newsletter every week and I want to hear from you. I plan to have social media going, e-mails, Facebook. I want to hear from you. When I say I want to be your voice, I mean that, so ‘yes,’ I will answer your phone calls and do the best I can for you.”
Kubenka
“I will answer any calls. I still have a landline and also, I am listed in the phone book,” Kubenka said. “I am retired, but I still have the fire and the energy to do this job. I understand the need to talk to constituents. I will always be available, at reasonable hours. I will drive out to situations. I’ve already served you on UGRA, so I understand citizens’ needs. I will be available seven days a week, 365, but not 24 hours, though.”
Paces
“My answer is ‘yes,’ absolutely. I’ve given out my phone number and my e-mail on all of my cards and campaign material,” Paces said.
He added that he carries his phone with him everywhere he goes and he is used to calls at all hours of the day and night as a member of the Center Point Volunteer Fire Department.
What will be your primary mode of informing your constituents on a regular basis?
Kubenka
Kubenka said he plans to be very visible in the Precinct 2 community through his activities and will participate in more, if elected. He also said he will use his Facebook, website and e-mail to keep in touch with his constituents.
“I welcome working with the citizens,” Kubenka said. “I will not mind a bit.”
Paces
Paces said he already has an active website, in which includes blogs, as well as a Facebook page he will maintain and will be available via phone and e-mail.
“I will probably look at putting out a newsletter as well,” Paces said.
Hooten
“Right now, you don’t see me out as much. I still work a 40-a-week job. I owe the county 40 before I can do anything with my election,” Hooten said. “If elected, I will give up my job at the sheriff’s office and I will be 100 percent full-time for you.”
She reminded those in attendance that should would publish a weekly newsletter and maintain her Facebook page, as well as being available by phone and e-mail.
Do you believe in term limits and how do you stand on gun control?
Paces
Paces said he believes in term limits, but doesn’t believe politicians will allow it.
“The only way that is going to happen is with a convention of states and I am for that, too,” Paces said. “I’m licensed to carry. I love guns. I will absolutely defend your right to bear arms. I’m a constitutionalist. I would like to see us get back to the constitution and how it was written by our forefathers, because they were pretty damn smart.”
Hooten
“I do believe in term limits. I would definitely only run, if elected, one more time. I think two terms is all anyone needs to do,” Hooten said. “With regard to gun control, I have a man over there that would divorce me if I was for gun control. Guns have been a big part of my life, all of my life, from my great-grandpa to my son. I am not for gun control.”
Kubenka
“I, too, would only run for two terms. I’m not counting any chickens before they hatch. I’ve got to get through this one first,” Kubenka said. “As far as gun control goes, absolutely I am for guns. In fact, I think women need guns more than men because the creeps out there. I would never hinder anybody from self-protection. I know citizens. I trust citizens. I don’t trust the criminals. I am for no gun control.”
How would you balance the county budget?
Kubenka
“Well, I think the county budget is balanced,” Kubenka said. “We’ve been very fortunate for the last 20 years to have low inflation and cheap interest and that is changing seriously in the last year or so. So, what do we have? Increasing property values, which puts more burden on all of us, but the budgets are all being challenged with inflation. The county currently operates on a balanced budget, but I think their could be struggles very quickly in the future.
Paces
“I think that is one of the top priorities is to have a thorough review of the budget. The budget has grown quite a bit,” Paces said. “This year, $44 million. It’s up, I think, from $36 million the year before. It’s going to take prioritization.”
Paces said the road and bridge department’s budget has increased significantly from $3 million to $5 million.
“It’s going to take someone who has a lot of experience in managing budgets,” Paces said. “For instance, with road and bridge, they will stick to their budget, they are good at it, but it just means they are going to do less work, which means your roads are going to be in worse condition. Normally, they handle about 50 miles per year of resurfacing to stay within budget and on average, 25 percent inflation for road materials in the recent tender that was open in January.”
Paces repeated his opinion that the county needs to get on the 10-year plan to repair all roads so that they don’t have to be reconstructed.
“But, it’s going to take sitting down with every department to better understand what their needs are and then setting priorities,” Paces said. “You can’t do everything. Everybody’s got a long wish list and sometimes, we are going to have to say ‘no’.”
Hooten
“Fortunately, for the year’s I’ve worked at the sheriff’s office, the budget has always been balanced,” Hooten said. “We actually have money left over every year to turn back to the county, so we’re doing a good job with that. However, the sheriff and I sat down this year to work on the budget and everything is increasing. Along with that, you have the state that comes out with these mandates that are unfunded. Then you have to think about our deputies. The put their lives on the line every day. They are there for you, but their salaries are not competitive with what is going on in our local area. These are all things we have to look at. Will we be able to fund those raises, I don’t know, but we are proud every year that we do come in under budget (at the sheriff’s office) and I will do my best to do the same as commissioner.”
What are your feelings about affordable housing? Families are not able to find affordable housing in Precinct 2.
Kubenka
“One of the problems with building in Kerr County is that most of the builders are very small, so you get no economies of scale,” Kubenka said. “Also, site work is very expensive.”
Kubenka said most retirees in Kerr County can pay with cash, which also drives the prices of housing up.
“What I do know is you can’t do high-concentrated housing here in the Center Point area, because the sewer line here is an environmental sewer line. It was not intended for development,” Kubenka said. “Affordable housing is an issue. I understand the working class. My family is from the working class, but what is the answer? I don’t know, but I will do whatever I can.”
Kubenka made note of the activity in the City of Kerrville Loop 534 area recently with new developments.
Paces
Paces said he is “regular builder for affordable housing” through Habitat for Humanity.
“The downside is that we only do about five houses a year,” Paces said. “I’d like to see a lot more of that if there is any way we can expand that program, but the reality is we need affordable housing, probably apartments. I agree with Stan, they need to be in Kerrville in the ETJ areas, because Kerrville is set up for more high-density housing.”
While he said the developments for high-density housing should be in Kerrville, he added that the county might have to add incentives to attract developers.
Hooten
“As far as the Center Point area goes, it depends on what the commissioners do with the regulations, but I don’t think they can change that much,” Hooten said. “As far as the density in this area, it’s not going to have affordable housing built here. You have to have 5-acre tracts, if you don’t have a sewer line or a water line, that’s not going to be affordable housing. If you are going to have apartments and condos, they are going to be in Kerrville, where you have sewer lines and water lines. Affordable housing in Center Point? I don’t see that happening any time soon.”
What is your take on commissioners giving themselves cost of living raises before there full-time employees one and/or giving the employees less than the elected officials get?
Hooten
“I think I know what this question is talking about. Not this past year, but the year before, it looked like the commissioners gave themselves a raise and we did not get any type of cost of living rase. My understanding was that was put in to place before the fiscal year changed and I’m not sure why they decided to do that, but that was their choice,” Hooten said. “I would not vote to give myself a raise before I gave the people that are out there working for a living a raise. I’ve been there and done that when raising a family, so ‘no,’ I would not take a pay raise before those employees.”
Kubenka
“If that’s true that that happened, it is not going to happen with me,” Kubenka said. “I would be the last to get a pay raise. I would make sure that the staff and all other elected officials would be first. This is how I did it for 40-something years at Insco Distributing. I could not do the work of managing that company without my staff. It’s so arrogant to think that some people would take a pay raise prior to your staff. It has to be staff first.”
Paces
“Yeah, I would never let that happen. I mean just the optics alone, there might have been a good rationale, but it shouldn’t have happened if it did and it would never happen under my watch,” Paces said. “People need those paychecks. I’m not in this for the money. I don’t care if I ever get a raise. I’m going to be giving most of it all to charity, to be honest. I’m not doing this for a paycheck.”
What is your position on the county using ARPA funds and if they are kept, where do you think they ought to be spent?
Kubenka
“$5 million has been given to the county already and $5 million will come later this spring. I do not have a position on keeping or sending back the money, because I want to get with the attorneys and I would like to get with the grant administrator they’ve hired,” Kubenka said.
He added that he has read the grant agreement and does have some concerns about specific language in one area.
“So, I’m not sure which way to go on this at this moment,” Kubenka said. “However, if this gets walked through and I feel comfortable that we will not be held accountable for these mandates, then I know right now the sheriff wants $5 million. This all stems from the radios they need and all that freeze they had last year where they could not communicate. I think there’s also some money that the court wants to put with the arena out here. These are things that I’ve just heard. What I have decided, because this have been very clear. This money is supposed to have COVID relationships with it.”
Kubenka said if the county does spend the ARPA funds, he believes it should stay within Kerr County departments and property so that the county is not liable if another entity does not meet the requirements.
Paces
“Well, I have been down to the commissioners court on several occasions and I’ve stated my opinion that they should send the money back. I actually stated that if I was sitting up there I would vote to send the money back, because I think there are too many strings attached,” Paces said.
He said that his thoughts are based on U.S. Treasury Department language that states all recipients of the funds comply with “all other applicable regulations, statutes and executive orders.”
He said that the State of Arizona has already been required to send the ARPA money back because they gave money to schools that did not mandate masks.
“As long as these insidious strings are attached to it … I don’t trust our government and I would send it back, but since we have already accepted it, we’ve already signed off on it, I sure as heck wouldn’t spend any of it until all the legal battles are concluded,” Paces said. “Depending on how they get concluded, maybe we spend it or maybe we send it back at that point,” Paces said. “We don’t have a legal team that can take on the federal government, so we are going to have to rely on what’s being done at the state level.”
Paces said some people believe it is fine to accept the money because it is “taxpayers dollars,” but he disagrees, saying it is money that is “being printed” and it will take generations to pay off.
Paces said if it all works out and Kerr County is able to keep the ARPA funds with no issues, he would support the Kerr County Sheriff’s Office, volunteer fire departments and put funds toward the upcoming projects slated for a bond election, like the courthouse renovations, Hill Country Youth Event Center improvements and a new animal shelter.
Hooten
“My first knee-jerk reaction was to send the money back,” Hooten said. “All federal money comes with some kinds of strings to it, however, I respect our commissioners decision to hold on to it and not spend it and to wait and see what happens. They are fixing to put a big bond to us and its for things we seriously need to look at, so we are already going to have our taxes raised. It’s not just the sheriff’s office that could use the money, it’s all county emergency services that could benefit from that. But, if those funds show to have those strings, we do need to send it back. If we get a new House and Senate in November, things could change.”
Is it your plan to be a full-time, in the office, commissioner? What will be your biggest obstacle to overcome as a commissioner?
Paces
“No, I will not be a full-time, in the office, commissioner. I will be your full-time commissioner and wherever I’m at my phone will be on and I’m available. There’s a lot of different people to be meeting with and talking with to stay in tune with the issues and concerns,” Paces said. “I’m still going to do some volunteer work, but if I’m appointed, that’s going to come first. To me, this is not a 9-5 job. Seven days a week, 24 hours, I’m available.”
Paces said, “Juggling all the different requirements will be his biggest obstacle.
“If you talk to my wife, she will tell you I am a workaholic and she’s always come out on the short end of that stick,” Paces said. “But I guess that’s how committed I am to whatever I’m doing. Trying to ensure she gets enough of my time will be my biggest obstacle.”
Hooten
“I don’t know about 24 hours, but I will be available to you most seven days a week. Am I going to be in the office 8-5, probably not, because there are going to be meetings to attend and events to participate and if you call me and you have something to show me, I’m going to come out and look at it,” Hooten said. “So, am I going to be a full-time commissioner, you bet. Am I going to be in the office 8-5, probably not, but you will be able to reach me if you need to.”
While she didn’t consider it an obstacle, Hooten said there are a lot of components to serving as Kerr County Commissioner and learning who will have the answers that she needs will take time and effort.
“And, I want to be there for you as well, so to start off with it is going to be a little tricky,” Hooten said.
Kubenka
“I consider myself a mobile office. I look forward to not only serving as commissioner, but there’s about 20 different laison positions that you have to serve. For instance, the airport board, the library board. They split this up amongst commissioners. I will be very excited to serve, particularly the airport board, there’s a lot going on at the airport right now. I’m also a licensed plumber, so I would be very comfortable in the wastewater department.”
He said he would also like to work with road and bridge to utilize his construction knowledge.
Regarding any potential obstacles, Kubenka said he would use his years of management skills to look at any challenge that comes his way as an opportunity, rather than an obstacle.
“I have a little motto for myself. I call it it Serve. Learn. And Lead,” Kubena said. “Obviously, I have a servants heart, I’m not going to know everything at first and will have to learn and then there are times you lead,” Kubenka said.
Closing statements
Paces
“One thing I kind of want to make clear. Relationships are important. And who you know, yeah, it’s important, but when you’re working the private sector, for big corporations, they move you around every year or two. Well, you don’t get six months or a year to get up to speed. You have to be a real good judge of character and people and you’ve got to spend a lot of time developing relationships, talking to people, knowing who to trust and who not to trust,” Paces said. “But I can assure you that I am very capable of getting up to speed very quickly. Now, once we get past this primary process, there’s a lot of time to get fully up to speed with all of the county department heads and even people at lower levels before we would actually take office. So, I see that as a huge luxury for this particular position. I hope that you will vote for the best qualified candidate and not necessarily the one that you know the best. Qualifications and proven track records of success are what’s important. We also need somebody who has no vested interest and who’s committed to doing the right things, the right way and has the leadership required to get others to come along. We don’t need another ‘good ole boy’ and somebody that’s going to do things they way they’ve always been done. There is a better way. I wish government worked a lot like the private sector. It would be a lot more efficient and I will do whatever I can to influence it in that direction. But, we also need somebody that loves God, our country, who loves Texas and his community and is committed to serving that community. I can only assure you that I am that candidate. I am committed to serving this community.”
Hooten
“As I said when I first started, I’m not a politician. I’m just one of you guys. I believe that it is vitally important that you the citizens of Kerr County are actively engaged in county government, as it affects your lives on so many levels,” Hooten said “Changes are coming to Precinct 2 and as your next commissioner, I will meet those challenges head-on, with a strong determination to maintain the quality of life, prioritize growth and development and preserve our standards and small-town values. As your commissioner, I will focus on public safety, supporting our law enforcement and keeping our neighborhoods safe. Most importantly, as your commissioner, I will be open, accountable and completely transparent with you. My name is Sonya Hooten, and I am the ‘wise choice,’ for county commissioner ofr Precinct 2.”
Kubenka
“It’s my understanding with Ingram Ready Mix moving out to the quarries, it’s a good thing, because it cuts down on the number of trucks. I appreciated the question about traffic on Highway 27, because most of the industrial development will be right down the street. That’s where it will be targeted for the future. I know the airport has big visions over there. I know there are a lot of different companies that want to come over there. My eyes have been open on this traffic thing, because that is not on my radar and I will find out if and what can be done. I know I am extremely blessed. I got to work 40-plus years in Kerr County and live in Precinct 2 for 31 years, so I know the neighborhood. I’ve also been in business, and I understand what it takes to pay taxes, because businesses don’t get a lot of deductions. You have to make payroll. You’ve got to take care of the staff and create benefits. So, I understand the private sector piece. I also was blessed to serve you, with the help of Harvey Hilderbran, as your representative on the UGRA for 11 years. I will always take that with me that I was able to sit with strong, smart lea
